David Frawley's speech, in Debate with Christian Missionaries

David Frawley's speech, in Debate with Christian Missionaries,


delivered at a public discussion organised by Prajna Bharati A.P., on


"The Ethics of Religious Conversions" at Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan,


Hyderabad.






















I was raised as a Catholic and went to Catholicschool. My uncle was,


and still is, a missionary. We were told that he was going to South


America to save the souls of the Native Americans, people we were told


were non-Christian and without conversion would suffer eternal


damnation. This is the background that I came from.


























Today, throughout the world, and in the United States, with very


little exception, there is no "Sarvadharma Samabhava" taught in


religion. It is something I never encountered in my Christian


education in the West.


























We were taught that Hinduism was a religion of idolatry; it was a


religion of polytheism and superstition and that there was no place


for Hindus in heaven. Even a great Hindu like Mahatma Gandhi might be


revered on a certain level, but he was not given the type of religious


credit that he would have been given had he been a Christian.


























These attitudes still exist throughout the world and India does not


exist in isolation. And Hindus in India are, and India as a whole is,


still being targeted for conversion. Why is this so? If all the


religions teach the same thing, why is it that certain religions are


seeking to convert the members of other religions to their beliefs?


























Hinduism is a pluralistic tradition. It teaches that there are many


paths, many scriptures, many sages, many ways to come to the Divine to


gain self-realization and it should be free for the individual to find


and follow whatever way he or she thinks or feels works best.


























But not all religions are pluralistic. In fact, most religions are


exclusive in their mentality and in their beliefs. The two largest


religions in the world, with a few notable exceptions, teach that


theirs is the only true faith. The average Christian throughout the


world has been taught to believe that only Christians gain salvation.


The idea has been projected as an eternal heaven for the Christians


and an eternal hell for the non-Christians, particularly for idol-


worshipping Hindus. And so far, we do not have major Christian leaders


in the world contradicting that statement.


























To date, there is no major Christian leader, or Moslem leader, in the


world, who is saying that Hinduism is as good as Christianity or


Islam. I do not know of any Christian leaders in the West who would


say that a Rama or a Krishna is equal to a Jesus. I do not know of any


of them who would honor a Ramana Maharshi, a Sri Aurobindo or a


Mahatma Gandhi as a God-realized or self-realized sage. I realize


there may be some exceptions to this, in the Indian context. But this


is not the case with, and it is also not the official policy of the


Vatican. It is not the policy of the Pope at all!


























I want to read a statement, from "The Coming of the Third Millennium",


which was issued very recently by the Pope, in relation to the


situation in Asia:


























"The Asia Synod will deal with the challenge for evangelization posed


by the encounter with ancient religions such as Buddhism and


Hinduism. While expressing esteem for the elements of truth in these


religions, the Church must make it clear that Christ is the one


mediator between God and man and the sole Redeemer of humanity."


























This is a direct quote. Now, what is it saying about religious


tolerance? Christ is the only way. The pope is saying that we accept


what is true in these religions, but we do not accept them if they do


not follow Jesus as the only way. We still have to convert them. That


is the message. This is not a message of tolerance and live and let


live. It is not a message of let Hindus have their way and we have


our and both are good. It is not a statement that Buddha or Krishna


is equal to Jesus.


























It is a statement of exclusivism and my contention is that such


exclusivism must breed intolerance. If I think that mine is the only


way, how can I be really tolerant and accepting of you, if you follow


another way? And such intolerance is going to end up causing conflict,


division, disharmony and poor communication.


























It is going to divide communities and cause problems. So, please bear


in mind that, in the Indian context, as Hindus, you have to deal with


these religions as the majority of the people in the world are


practicing and believing in them, and this conversion process is


continuing.


























I also think that we should have a free, open, friendly dialogue and


discussion on all religious matters, both in terms of social


interaction and relative to doctrinal matters. There should be


complete freedom of discussion, freedom of criticism and freedom of


debate just as we have in science.


























What generally happens in the field of conversion is that certain


groups are targeted for conversion activity. I would like to


discriminate between two different things. One is the change of


religion, which people may opt for, based upon open and friendly


discussion, debate, dialogue and studies. Nothing is wrong with that.


But I would discriminate that from what I would call the "global


missionary business".


























The global missionary business is one of the largest, perhaps even the


largest business in the world. Not only the Catholic Church, but also


various Protestant organizations have set aside billions of dollars to


convert non-Christians to Christianity. They have trained thousands of


workers, have formed various plans of evangelization and conversion


and have targeted certain communities for that particular purpose.


This multi-national conversion business is like any multi-national


economic business. It is not something that is simply fair and open.


It is not simply a dialogue or a discussion.


























So what we see with this missionary business is a definite strategy


for one religion to convert the members of other religions. This


conversion business is not about religious freedom. It is about one


religion triumphing over all the other religions. It is about making


all the members of humanity follow one religion, giving up and,


generally, denigrating the religion they had previously been


following.


























Why is this conversion business so big in India? Because India is the


largest non-Christian country in the world where missionaries have the


freedom to act and to propagate. Islamic countries -- Pakistan,


Bangladesh -- do not allow this missionary activity at all. In Saudi


Arabia, you cannot even bring a Bible or a picture of Jesus into the


country. China, also, does not allow such wide-scale missionary


conversion activities.


























So India, because of its very openness to and tolerance of these


missionaries, has become the target. You know from recent newspapers


that one missionary was killed in India, which is unfortunate. But in


that same week, fifty Christians were massacred in Indonesia by the


Moslems there. The religious violence is going on all over the world


and Christians are not always the victims. In India, for centuries,


Hindus have been routinely killed for their religion. Even recently in


Kashmir, a number of Hindus were massacred, but you will notice that,


in the Western media, the death of Hindus for their religion will


never count and will never constitute a story. However, if one


missionary -- one white man -- is killed in India, then these Western


countries will retaliate with sanctions, criticize, and take some


moral high ground.


























Missionary activity has a bloody history of genocide on every


continent of the world. I am not going to go into all the details


here. The Inquisition was in operation in Goa in India. The British


used their influence, though less overtly, to force conversions, and


certainly the missionaries had an advantage under colonial rule all


over the world. In a number of countries, colonial interests used


force and persuasion to bring about conversion.


























We are told today that we should forget all about that, even though it


has only been a generation or two since the colonial era. I say that


we cannot forget so easily because the very religious groups that


performed these atrocious acts have not yet apologized. If they


recognize that this missionary aggression and violence that was done


before 1947; that was done in the 19th century; that was done in Goa;


that was done in the Americas was wrong, then why don't we get an


apology for it?


























You will notice that the Christians in America have made some


apologies for what they did to the Native Americans. We have yet to


see any apology relative to Hindus. If the missionaries want us to


believe that they have changed their ways and are now purely non-


violent and charitable, then why do they not at least apologize for


what they did in the past?


























And why should there be conversions at all? What is the motivation


behind most seeking of conversions that is coming out of the Christian


background? It is their belief that Christianity is the only true


religion, Christ is the only saviour of humanity, Christians gain


salvation or heaven and non-Christians gain damnation or hell.


























That is not a policy of harmony and tolerance but a blueprint for


disharmony and conflict. What ultimately happens when someone who has


that attitude comes into a community and converts people? People are


taught to reject their ancestors and their traditions. Families are


broken up. Division and conflict almost inevitably occur wherever this


missionary business goes on. There are actually many forms of


Christianity and several different kinds of Christian missionary


activity going on.


























And there are Christian groups that are not missionary at all, for


example, the old Greek Orthodox and the Syrian Christians, but which


represent old and tolerant traditions. Then there is the Catholic


tradition which is promoting its missionary activity all over the


world but which is doing it in a more subtle way today. They are no


longer using the force that they once used in the colonial era, but


they are still aiming at global conversion. There are also the old


Protestants, the Anglicans and the Lutherans, who are still promoting


various types of missionary activity. That has gotten reduced to some


degree as well.


























However, there is a new evangelical force in the world today,


particularly that coming out of the United States. What are the


fundamentalist Christian groups of America? The World Vision, the


Christian coalition, groups like Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons,


Baptists and so on.


























They are very actively asking for donations in America in order to


convert Hindus in India. We see this routinely in the various


television channels that they have. Pat Robertson, one of their main


leaders, has said that Hinduism is a demonic religion.


























They show Hindu gods with animal heads and say, "Oh! Look at how


primitive these people are." They look at the political and social


problems of India and say; "These are all owing to Hinduism. Please


donate money to our cause so we can go to India and convert these


people from this horrible religion that they have."


























These same evangelical missionaries are going all over the world and


also targeting Catholics. Recently, in Brazil, the Pope called these


evangelical missionaries "wolves" because of what they were doing to,


what he termed, "his flock of Christians", which was converting them


to their form of Christianity.


























So this missionary threat continues and some missionaries are going


back to the old hell-fire, damnation, condemnation of Hinduism such as


the Catholics used to do in the Middle Ages and in the colonial era.


So do not believe that there is religious harmony all over the world


and that the other religions respect Hinduism and are willing to live


together quietly with Hindus.


























In fact, in textbooks in America, it is taught that Hinduism is not a


religion because Hinduism does not have only one God, one book and is


not a missionary religion seeking to convert or conquer the world. So


it is this missionary business which needs to be questioned and not


simply conversion.


























And do not be naive about it!


























There is a consistent use of social upliftment and charity to promote


conversion. While social upliftment and charity are very good things,


they should be separated from religious conversion. If you want to


raise up a country and help them economically, please do so, but do


not bring religion into it. When you put the picture of Jesus


everywhere obviously religion and conversion are part of your


motivation.


























You will note that no country in the world has been raised up


economically by religious conversion. What has made Japan a great


country economically and what made the United States a great country


economically are economic means, not a change of religion. Christian


countries include some of the poorest countries in the world. The


Philippines is the most Catholic and the oldest Christian country in


Asia. It remains one of the poorest countries in Asia and has one of


the greatest gaps between the rich and the poor. The most devout


Catholics in the world are in Central and South America. They are


certainly not found in North America and in Europe, where Christians


are more nominal than strong believers. Central and South America also


have tremendous social inequality and a tremendous gap between the


rich and the poor. But the Catholics there are not telling the poor


people that they should convert to another religion in order to raise


themselves economically.


























So this whole attack on Hindu society by stating that we will raise


the poor on religious grounds is based upon the motivation of


conversion. Then here is the whole issue of hospitals, orphanages and


schools. It is all very wonderful to selflessly help other people. But


why do you have to put a religious form there? As long as the picture


of Jesus is there, particularly when you have a two thousand year


history of aggressive conversion activities, how can you expect people


to believe that there is no seeking of conversion? That it is purely


selfless service and love of God?


























If we love God, if we love our fellow human beings, we will love them


regardless of what their religious belief is. We will love their


religion as well. We will honor and respect their religion whether


they are aboriginal people, Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Moslems


or Christians. We will not see any need to convert them. In fact, we


should not even be conscious of their religion at all. True love of


God does not seek converts. It is not based upon names, forms or


identity. It is based upon recognizing the Divine presence in all.


























One of the great swamis of India, Swami Rama Tirtha, when he came to


America, was asked about religion. He said, "You do not belong to any


religion. All religions belong to you." The human being is not a


property of any Church. You are not some thing which is owned by


anyone or anything. The soul does not need to be saved. It is the


eternal and immortal part of our nature. We need only understand the


Divine within us. You cannot change the nature of any human being.


Hinduism is based upon respecting each individual and the Swadharma of


each individual. We should have many paths and many religions. The


idea of only one religious faith for all humanity is like having only


one set of clothing for all humanity. It is like people having to eat


only one type of food, or people having only one type of job. There


should be diversity, abundance and freedom in the religious realm as


well.


























Unfortunately, all religions do not have the same goal. Religions have


various goals. Religions are various paths. We should note that all


religions are not theistic. There are non-theistic religions like


Buddhism and Jainism where there is no creator God. There are


religions with a multiplicity of deities. Monotheism is not the only


form of religion in the world and it is not the best form either.


























All forms of religious worship have their validity and Hinduism


recognizes them whether they are, polytheism, monotheism or monism.


Even atheists have their place in Hinduism. People should have


complete freedom to reject religion if that is what they want to do.


Hindu tradition is a sadhana tradition that aims at spiritual practice


for self-realization. Most Christian traditions, for example the


Protestant tradition, claim that faith alone is enough to save you.


























This means that a person may be a mass murderer, but if on his


deathbed he converts to Christianity, he will go to heaven. Another


person may live the life of a saint, but if he does not convert to


Christianity, there will be no heaven for him. Recently, in the United


States, a woman who had been convicted of murder was converted to


Christianity on death-row and the Christian leaders -- particularly


the fundamentalist Christians -- asked for the death sentence to be


removed because since that woman had converted to Christianity


therefore the sin no longer counted.


























The same people would not have made the statement had the woman


converted to Hinduism or any other non-Christian faith. We do need


religious harmony and dialogue throughout the world. One of the most


unfortunate things is that there is so much misinformation and even


disinformation about Hinduism in the world. For example, in the New


York Times, only last year, there was a story about the Amarnath


pilgrimage in India. And what did the New York Times call it?


























"Hindus going to worship the sex organs of Shiva, the God of


Destruction." What kind of tolerance is that? What kind of point of


view is being projected by it? But I have to tell you that the fault


for this is not really all with these western people. The fault lies


with Hindus themselves. They have been very poor at expressing what


their religion is and in countering disinformation and propaganda


against them. They do not study their religion properly and so, they


cannot explain what it is. They are also misinformed about other


religions and think that other religions are just Hinduism in another


form.


























But you will not find these rich traditions of yoga, meditation, Vedas


and Vedanta, in other traditions. Particularly in the Protestant


tradition in the West they are rejected almost altogether and, to


these Evangelical Christians, they are considered to be the work of


the devil. Some people say that all religions teach the same thing.


Well, Hinduism teaches the Law of Karma and Rebirth.


























Christianity and Islam do not accept that. Some people say all


religions teach the same things and they only differ in inessentials.


Is the Law of Karma and the process of Rebirth something inessential?


























Now, certainly there should be a respect for universal, ethical values


such as truthfulness, non-violence, peace and harmony. These should be


accepted for all human beings regardless of their religion. In fact,


they should be projected for all of nature. One of the problems that I


see in Christianity, as most Christians believe it, is that animals


are considered to be devoid of a soul and only human beings can gain


salvation.


























One of the reasons that we are exploiting and destroying this planet


is because we do not see the presence of a soul and consciousness in


nature, the animals and the rest of the Universe. We must move beyond


all our narrow, human-centric creeds. True religion is not a matter of


name, form or identity. It is a matter of that which is eternal, that


which is universal, that which no one owns and is a matter of


consciousness, awareness and Truth.


























The highest goal of the Hindu religion is self-realisation, not simply


knowing God, but understanding who we are and the Divine presence


within us. One of the main problems of humanity is that we do not


understand ourselves and our motivations. Instead, based upon some


dogma or belief, we are trying to get others to think and act like we


do before we understand ourselves and understand them.


























So let there be a dialogue. Let there be open, friendly and also


critical communication in religion just as in science. But please let


us expose and put an end to this missionary business and let us not


think that the missionary business is tolerant. The missionary


business is not about freedom of religion. It is about the triumph of


one religion. It is not about secularism. The missionary business


accepts that only one religion is true. It is a religious war aimed at


religious control.


























The way to challenge this is not through violence or through


intolerance, but through being properly informed. It is through being


open, friendly, dialoguing and talking to people, so they understand


what the Hindu point of view is, so that any distortions about


Hinduism are removed. We are all the same Divine being. We all share


the same human nature and we must recognise that in all human beings


for harmony to exist.


























At the same time, we should not be naive about the forces of the world


and the forces that are trying to disintegrate this society and this


culture. I think it would be a tremendous loss if India gave up


Hinduism and became another Christian or Islamic country. We have


enough of these already. India has a wealth of its own spiritual


traditions that the rest of the world needs. Why do Westerners come


here? They come here for this wealth of spiritual knowledge. In fact,


you should be exporting your religion. That is one thing you have


enough of. There are other more important things that you need to


import.